Discussion about this post

User's avatar
Chuck Eddy's avatar

via facebook (responses to pre-update, Mellencamp-less 2020 version when I was still combining 1990 with 1991):

Chuck Eddy

Jaz, there was even adult alternative mainstream country marketed to a yuppie-type demographic: Lyle Lovett, k.d. lang, K.T. Oslin (who has the highest country album on my list), Mary Chapin Carpenter, Steve Earle, Dwight Yoakam, the Mavericks. Those all got played on country stations! And I’m sure I’m forgetting others. Then Garth and Shania came around, I guess, and proved there were more profitable ways to define the genre.

Steve Pick

Chuck Eddy and I loved all the artists you name here and hated Garth Brooks for wiping them off the radio. However, once Shania came along I was and remain completely on boardvia facebook (responses to pre-update, Mellencamp-less 2020 version when I was still combining 1990 with 1991):

Steve Pick

Pavement remains a bete noire for me only slightly below Nirvana. P.M. Dawn is interesting – I loved them at the time, haven’t played them in 25 years. After I saw them live in ’93, a show astounding in its breadth and depth, the records never sounded as good to me.

I just checked my best of list for 1991 – you didn’t pick any of these, all of which hold up for me, a couple of which – the John Prine and the Willie Nile – are in contention for any list I’d make for the whole decade.

Image may contain: 8 people, text that says ‘STEVE PICK Pick’s Picks: Not The 10 Best But The 20 Best Of1991

[Here Steve posted a column featuring albums by Elvis Costello, Marshall Crenshaw, Get a Life, Jimmie Dale Gilmore, Peter Holsapple and Chis Stamey, John Lee Hooker, the La’s, John Mellencamp, Van Morrison, Aaron Neville, Willie Nile, Graham Parker, Pere Ubu, John Prine, Public Enemy, Chris Smither, Matthew Sweet, Richard Thompson, Voice of the Beehive, and Neil Young.]

Mike Freedberg

Any list with John Lee Hooker in it deserves a salute

Chuck Eddy

Interesting, Steve. Guess I never had much taste for what I’d call Adult Alternative music (NPR music? WXPN music, since I lived in Philly at the time?) in the ’90s. I’m sure there are exceptions (hey, a Roches Xmas album and the soundtrack to a Ken Burns Civil War documentary both made my 1990 top 50!), but they’re admittedly few and far between. Most tended to strike me as staid, stodgy, genteel, whatever. And I know I’m speaking in generalities. But for example, I LOVE early John Cougar way more than any sane person should, but I can probably count the post-Lonesome Jubilee Mellencamp songs I care about on one hand. And I’ve never really connected with Elvis Costello since, like, Trust. P.M. Dawn, just about as Adult Alternative as hip-hop ever got unless Arrested Development count, only just barely hold up for me — Which is why they’re so low on the list. Several rap albums ranked higher. Mainly, I like their pretty singles I guess, and the sweetness of their ambition. And apparently I feel about Pere Ubu (whose mid ’70s singles and first two albums rank with my favorite music ever) and Pavement (who I basically stop having a use for after their first few singing-through-a-broken-Burger-King-drivethrough-intercom EPs) the way you feel about Inscoc. Who are a weird case: Their first album, which was their big one, never meant much to me. But the flop-selling followup, which I suspect is more arty than you’d expect though maybe not the way their early indie stuff was, is to me their great one. I’ll try to track down what I wrote about it in Spin a few years ago (Google isn’t helping), but suffice it to say it goes every which way dance-genre-wise (house, freestyle, etc.) way more cleverly than most such patchworks.

Jaz Jacobi

I keep trying to explain to people how much, maybe before “adult alternative” was a commonplace marketing term, watching VH1 around 1989 made me wonder if there really was a big market for “NPR/genteel” rock for grown-ups, kind of a window of yuppification maybe before the Garth Brooks-era wave of country being so big with that demographic. I remember seeing seeing so many music videos in rotation that seemed to have almost zero radio presence in the rural Midwest, anyway: Julia Fordham, Syd Straw, pre-hit Chris Isaak, Julee Cruise, Tuck & Patti, Richard Thompson, stuff like that–once I ever saw pre-Mazzy Star obscuro-indie act Opal’s video on a Sunday afternoon. This was right around when Alannah Myles and Marc Cohen hit pay dirt with semi-AOR big-production power ballad-ish tunes, and Hair Club for Men candidates like Paul Simon or Mark Knopfler were still credible hitmakers on a certain level, so maybe someone figured the moment was ripe for a sort of post-“rawk” rock for middle-aged audiences–funny, since years down the road I stopped seeing much distinction between MTV being “for the kids” and VH1 being for their parents, in terms of musical selection, i.e. both were playing Metallica [maybe not hip-hop?]. This also was around when “world beat” was being pushed in a significant manner, perhaps post-GRACELAND being the prime moment for that; VH1 had a show hosted by Nile Rodgers that was on five times a week, each day focusing on a different genre [world, jazz, etc.].

Steve Pick

Chuck Eddy, since I’m two years older than you (and thus was a worldly 33 when I wrote the piece I shared), I of course was always more mature than you. Seriously, though, I remember very much thinking that rock music (and its associated offshoots) was growing up, and that it would be for adults from then on. This was largely the reason Nirvana hit me like a ton of bricks falling on my head – when I saw 13-year-old girls reenacting their SNL appearance the morning after it aired, I kind of knew that all my favorite music was never going to be popular. I kept on pursuing the dream for a while, trying to convince people through what I wrote – within two years, though, I was much more interested in Betty Boo, Dee-Lite, Janet Jackson, and TLC. Over the years, I managed to come to the conclusion that I’m interested in a wide range of music without worrying about its popularity, which I suppose is part of the reason there’s no market out there for me as a critic any more. I do know, though, that you and I have similar tastes in music from 1977, and I like more things you recommend in recent years, so the wide disparity in our 90s interests doesn’t seem as important as it maybe did back then.

Chuck Eddy

Jaz, there was even adult alternative mainstream country marketed to a yuppie-type demographic: Lyle Lovett, k.d. lang, K.T. Oslin (who has the highest country album on my list), Mary Chapin Carpenter, Steve Earle, Dwight Yoakam, the Mavericks. Those all got played on country stations! And I’m sure I’m forgetting others. Then Garth and Shania came around, I guess, and proved there were more profitable ways to define the genre.

Steve Pick

Chuck Eddy and I loved all the artists you name here and hated Garth Brooks for wiping them off the radio. However, once Shania came along I was and remain completely on board

Expand full comment
Chuck Eddy's avatar

via facebook

Steve Pick

Your list has even more records I don’t know that seem likely to be good if I’d ever hear them than usual. I really never liked Nirvana, though. There are easily 150 records you left off your list better than Nevermind, even if you think there were only 133 better ones you named. I’ll never forget the sinking feeling, though, the morning after their appearance on Saturday Night Live, when I was working in the record store by myself doing upstocking and figuring out which albums needed to be ordered with the new computer Billboard magazine bought us so that we could be an indie store reporting for Soundscan. Three 13-year-old girls were out in front of the store acting out every move Cobain and Novoselic had done on TV. I instantly realized that despite his top 40 hit a couple years earlier with “Veronica,” Elvis Costello was never going to be a big star. And the rock music I loved – which included Poi Dog Pondering at the time – was now being superseded by a younger generation (though I maintain the Steve Pick Experience, an amateurish hardcore band I was in back in 1985, was only a little bit less developed at doing the same kind of music Nirvana did.)

I don’t remember how considered it was, but I did review your book that year in the St. Louis Post-Dispatch. I also reviewed Douglas Coupland’s book that year in SurFace, an attempt to start a cultural arts newspaper here in St. Louis that lasted a handful of months. I distinctly remember thinking – at last, a book about my generation, the one born in 1958 (like Michael Jackson, Prince, and Madonna), because Coupland’s theme was that we had grown up being told about all these great things our older peers were getting into, and by the time we were old enough to do them, they were no longer the idealistic searching for freedom things they had seemed to be.

Chuck Eddy

So, did you consider yourself Generation X at that point? I’m curious when that changed, who made the decision, and why! It’s so weird that it did.

Steve Pick

absolutely. To this day it annoys me when people insist I’m a Boomer instead.

Expand full comment
2 more comments...

No posts

Ready for more?